Here is an interesting challenge just in from a TY reader:
“On a recent trip back to Italy my aunt gave me this picture of my mother on her brother’s cycle. It was take in 1920 or thereabouts. Could anyone ID it? Much appreciated. Thanks.
-Aurelio A.”
What do you think it is? Leave your guesses on year and model in the comments section! We have added a second photo below with a close-up of the bike itself!
And the close-up view of the bike:
That is a tough one, and there are very few clues that I recognize, except that the exposed flywheel looks remarkably similar to the “baloney slicers” on much later Moto Guzzi Airones and Falcones, so given that it was taken in Italy, I am going to guess that it is a, early (1920′s) Moto Guzzi.
Chas
I too am gonna guess Guzzi ; will hafta look and research a bit. What I don’t need to guess about is that your Mom [and Uncle and Aunt] is way cool! thanks for sharing the photo Aurelio.
I am in the same boat guzzi
To my knowledge, Guzzi never had a flywheel on the left side or a vertical cylinder. (could be a mirror image of the photo). The plot thickens.
Ooops, change that. Guzzi never had a flywheel on the RIGHT side.
I don’t have a clue but I’d guess a Bianchi only because I know they made a chain-driven 650cc motocicli back in the ’20′s for the military. Just a guess.
the date is early 1920′s. Druid type front forks, beaded edge tires, dummy rim front brake, reversed levers, etc all point to that era. It looks like a two stroke head, unless it is a very uncommon sidevalve with the valves on the left side. (or a reversed negative on the photo?) The large section tires are bit odd, that plus the external flywheel might help somebody to ID the bike.
Right after I posted, I had the same thought as Mr Hayes – the Guzzi cylinders were horizontal to the best of my limited knowledge. Back to the drawing board…
Definitely not Guzzi. It is French built circa 1920 to 1930. Maybe a Sun, Sparkbrook or some other odd make.
That’s a tough one; I have Alfredo Milani’s comprehensive set of Italian bike marques – it is four hardbound volumes. Yes, all we Yanks hear about are Guzzi and Bianchi (this bike is neither), but there’s a whole world of Italian motorcycles from the 1920s. My guess is the neg is reversed, and it’s a two-stroke, ca.1921-25, for the reasons Pete explains. If I dig something similar up, I’ll post a pic…
I think I have confirmed that the photo is NOT reversed. I searched everywhere for lettering. Forget the bike. Look above the far end of the wall, at about her shoulder height. There is a black region with some contrasting lettering. I can’t read it all, but I think I clearly see an “R” and it just doesn’t work if you hold a mirror to it. Thus, I conclude the flywheel is, in fact, on the right side of this moto.
Internet search shows a few pictures of Gillet-Herstal out of Belgium with right side flywheel. The pic in my encyclopedia shows fat tires but a left side flywheel version. Just a guess.
Also, if you carefully blow up that black area in the bushes, above the contrasting word, I think I can see the word SHELL and above it an image of the Shell Logo. Or perhaps it is just my imagination?
certainly cant be sure but im going with mid 20′s to very early 30′s Terrot from france… they had girder forks exactly like this as well as cyls that were this shape.
Great photo.
I am not familiar with either earier RUDGE MotorCycles nor HENDERSONs, but this has ThaT VIBE o>o
i dont think MOTO GUZZI Nor other ITALIANE MOTOs had those BULBOUS WALL Tyres/Front ends,..diD they?
will have to ReSearch…
@Patrick Hayes, yes, Shell Logo and “Shell” and also the nonsensical “BRUTORE” below it, with leading “B” could be any other letter.
Thumbs up to Mr Varjaks comment since the button thingies dont function yet.
Pete, like your website, and i think those are Druid forks (mk 2?)
I think the key on this one could be the almost vertical, rather large displacement (500cc or so) engine.
Also I think the deeply finned head/ cover may be a good clue. Some Gillet-Herstal’s had those 8-9 deep fins on the top and they had a very similar mount on the down tube, but don’t know if they ever had a dummy rim on the front, though that could be modification also.
So many builders made two or three bikes never to be seen again its very hard to pinpoint marques.
This was posted on another board and I sent him this way for a better chance at a knowledgable answer.
My best guess is an FN 350 going off the forks, cylinder/head, and flywheel. Not that I know these bikes…
It’s actually not such a hard one in my opinion.
It’s an FN m70, produced in Herstal, Belgium.
They went into production in December 1926, and by 1928 got drum brakes. So this is likely to be a 1927 one.
Giveaway clues are not only the outside flywheel, but also in the typical way the mudguard is attached to the front forks.
It’s a 350 cc SV. This model is quite common and got it’s fair share of fame when it became the first motorcycle ever to cross the Sahara. The trip of Glimic, Brumeteau and Weerens is well documented story that’s worth a read.
It’s also why these bikes are often referred to as an FN Sahara nowadays.
Could it be a single cylinder BMW?
you got it Tinkerman. The valves and exhaust on the left side puzzled me, along with the “Italian” heritage. But it does appear to be an M70.
http://www.google.com/search?q=fn%20m70&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1582&bih=723
You guys are amazing. FN is the same company that builds or built guns? Why are so many motorcycle companies in the arms business?
You guys really know your old bikes.
I’m going to stipulate to Tinkerman’s greater expertise.
What’s that extra circle above and forward of the flywheel? (horn or generator or?)
Those dummy rim brakes threw me. I was thinking it would be something a little older:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12011031@N02/4305913555/
Also on this 1927 with drum brakes the cooling fins look right:
http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/fn/FN_M70_Sahara_1927_350cc.htm
And on page 10 of the 1931 manual (gotta’ love the internet!)
http://users.telenet.be/FN.oldtimers/treffen/manM70-31a.pdf
@Jim:
http://users.telenet.be/FN.oldtimers/images/FN_M70_1926.jpg
The pic at bottom is from the same angle as the photo above. Spot on call by the tinkerman.
http://www.mvca.at/Museumsseiten/FN-Sahara.htm
well done – i think it IS an M70. hercule poirot would be proud of U — here’s a link with the bike showing the rim brake -
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/fb/27fn-Sahara_350cc_Bayde.jpg
YA! {radical}
As a native Belgian, I have to congratulate Patrick Owens and the Tinkerman on their expertise. As a teenager, I owned a Sarolea 350 side valve and a Novy with a 125 Villiers engine, but I never had an FN. In the fifties, FN made some motorcycles with rather strange looking rubber band front suspension, before pulling out of motorcycle production. Out here in California, I have seen a few old FN’s but never seen a Sarolea; I found my Sarolea sitting outside under a tree, all rusty, and managed to get it running but never managed to break that thing, very sturdy.
Great detective work! I got to this a little late, but just wanted to say that it certainly wasn’t a Gillet Herstal. I have a 1926 Gillet Herstal 350 Tour de Monde twostroke here in the US. They don’t have Druid front forks, like this one, but have their own with a central spring inside of a shroud. They also have the outside flywheel on the left side if it has a transmission, but on the right side if it has the earlier belt drive with the engine turned around 180°. They also have a stirrup front brake on the earlier ones and small drum on the later ones with no dummy rim being used. This site is a great font of information and I will check it more often. Thanks
I think this is an ……. James ……. motorcycle ……. Fred.
Ken, I was just going to e-mail you in the Philippines, as the Gellet Herstal was mentioned and it did look a bit like yours. FN : It is amazing what some people know! (or quickly research)! Zukiman in Calif
This is a FN M70 SAHARA 350 cc engine from 1926.
I own the same motorcycle.